The Starrett 25-441J is designed specifically for dial reading and the device does this job quite well. Because the measuring direction of a dial test indicator is at right angles to a line drawn through the contact point and the stylus pivot, this effect can be minimized by setting the stylus to minimize angle θ (as shown in the figures). The Last Word indicators are rugged, but not as accurate. 1 x dial indicator Thankfully, the dial indicator exists. This will help you figure out the particular model that meets your needs. Plus now the last word will move up in the drawer next to the Mit. Please read our disclosure for more info. I had one Mitutoyo Top reader, after using for a month on the jig bore and being repaired 3 time for not reading right. Check your indicator accuracy with gage blocks. I got in the trade before Starrett and B/S went over to the dark side most of my tooling is starrett, just didn’t like their indicators. No-clutch structure for automatic reversal of measuring direction. This Brown & Sharpe indicator is still one of the best test indicators available. Yes its expensive but is top of the line and worth every penny. It has jeweled bearings for high sensitivity, wear resistance, and a long service life. To wrap things up, the Starrett has, once again, delivered a great product that can be used on par with professional models without sacrificing the measurement precision. L D 513-424E 22.3 ø40 513-404E 20.9 ø40 513-415E 44.5 ø40 513-426E 22.3 ø40 513 … Steelex (China) a vanity dial on an inexpensive, throw-away dial indicator. The measuring range of the main indicator face is 0.375” with a 0.001” graduation. Reliability is the Key. Dial Indicators are also categorized based on their connection. black dial models: -5; white dial … This test dial indicator has a replaceable contact point and features a jeweled lever action for smooth readings. Additionally, you can keep all of your devices within a hand’s reach by storing them in a magnetic tool holder. Use either a body clamp, friction holder or shank to mount this swiveling, tubular body. Despite the fact that some of the set's parts are a little flimsy, the dial test indicator itself won’t let you down in time of need. Test Indicators Test indicators translate small linear distances into rotational movement to measure dimensions to 0.060", accurate up to 0.0001". In case of sale of your personal information, you may opt out by sending us an email via our Contact Us page. Minimum-Use-Specifications for Standards listed are 1/4 the accuracy required by the IUT. Using a dial test indicator is not very complicated, but it requires a little bit of patience. What is more, you can increase the measuring range using the side dial by adding 0.015” per revolution. They are typically fixed to a magnetic base or other Starrett fixture. These indicators come with a calibration certificate traceable to NIST that states they’ve passed a test for accuracy. ­ All Rights Reserved, Review & Comparison, Last Update October 14, 2020, Precision measurements are quite difficult to perform using regular tools. This particular dial model is designed for measurements between 0-1” with a deviation of ± 0.002”, which is fairly accurate for such a compact indicator. I believe Starrett is controlled as a Chinese company now. Other than that, the container is quite sturdy and will surely protect the main piece of equipment - the dial indicator itself. Learn more about us. Their sole purpose is to detect any inaccuracies that a naked eye simply cannot see. First, press the  contact point against the desired part’s surface. This dial test indicator does not have issues sticking to surfaces and the repeatability makes this tool highly reliable. To leave a comment please sign up/sign in, Leave a comment as or Logout, Copyright © 2020 www.bestadvisor.com. The tester comes supplied with a special 9" magnet base that can be adjusted to set up the indicator exactly how you want. Fowler 52-562-778 Black Face Dial Test Indicator, 0.030″ Maximum Measuring Range, 0.0005″ Graduation Interval, 1″ Diameter, Starrett 711GPSZ Last Word Dial Test Indicator with Attachments, White Dial, 0-15-0 Reading, 0-0.03″ Range, 0.001″. Keep in mind none of these recommendations relate to the ease of repair or calibration. So don’t expect any changes. The deviation is minimal as it should be, considering that this model is not a cheap one. If you are looking for a budget-friendly yet precise test indicator, then the Türlen AT203721 is the right model for you. Dial indicator checker with .0001" micrometer head, or equivalent. No question about which way it’s reading. In 35 Years in the tooling trade i have used a lot of different Indicators. This is crucial for various areas where dirt and dust are inevitable such as machining tables and production lines. My go to indicators are still My B&S and my Interapid Indicators. Been in business repairing dial indicators for close to 40 years. The applications of this popular measuring tool are very broad, ranging from tramming your milling machine to measuring the roundness or runout of cylindrical parts. The three additional measuring points extend the measuring range significantly while providing the precision and versatility to the device, thus allowing you to test different materials. The Standards listed below should be selected on the basis of their higher accuracy level when compared to the unit under test. It is important to note that test indicators allow just for a single revolution of the pointer around the dial, and the tool only allows for clockwise rotation as opposed to a dial indicator which rotates both clockwise and counterclockwise. I’d love to see you do an article on test indicator mounting systems for a variety of purposes – focus on lathe and milling machine. Let’s take a look at the top 5 dial test indicators models recommended by your fellow machinists. The Dial Test Indicator is one of the most popular and most commonly misused measuring tools. Dial test indicators (with the wiggly arms) aren't particularly accurate in the first place due to trigonometric errors when the point is moved. Picture a dial test indicator head-on, looking at the dial, or dial face. Magnetic base, 22-piece indicator point set, Storage case, This site is a free online resource that strives to offer helpful content and comparison features to its visitors. Reject the dial indicator if its readings are off by more than 1 increment over the first 2-1/3 revolutions of the dial. On top of the magnetic base and the tool itself, the kit also comes equipped with a set of extra 22 point indicators. Additionally, you can keep all of your devices within a hand’s reach by storing them in, Best EMF Meters for Measuring Electromagnetic Fields, Best Grease Guns to Maintain Machinery Effortlessly, Best Caulking Guns: Air-Pressure, Battery-Powered, and Manual Models. Test indicator calibration arm. Thanks!!!! This easy-to-use dial indicator gives you a quick and accurate measurement in seconds. The set includes an Interapid 312 dial test indicator, a 0.080" (2mm) ball-end carbide contact point, a point key, a Certificate of Accuracy and Traceability, and a storage box. The black dial and orange hands have practically become a trademark for this gage. In addition to the interchangeable parts, the kit comes equipped with a special carry case that will make transportation a breeze. One-piece bezel and crystal design with O-ring provide … The only real issue with this tester is its easily soiled dovetail. Accuracy: Dial Reading: Measuring Force: 513-302G: Basic set.0005in.03in ±.0005in: 0-15-0: 0.3N or less: 513-302GT: Contrary to other similar models in the same price range, the TR72020 indicator comes together with 22 different measurement tips that increase an already good measuring range of the tool. After all, all you need is precise measurements, not pretty looks. Even though this particular model is not the sturdiest one, considering its relatively low price, we can forgive a slight shortcoming in this department. Unlike dial indicators, dial test indicators (or DTI) have a lever-type arm. The deviation of only 0.0005" makes it an excellent tool for delicate projects that require an extra level of accuracy. A dial test indicator consists of a gauge; on the gauge is a pin level mounted on a spring. Quality, accuracy, integrity, design, etc. Dial indicators translate small linear distances into rotational movement to measure dimensions to 4.000", with accuracies up to 0.0001". Although the manufacturers supply their indicators with a range of measurements for every specific model, it is important to measure the length of the pointer tester (spindle) and measuring range. If you are looking for more accuracy choose Digital type gauges. 513-908 (mm) 513-404E: Dial test indicator 7014: Mini magnetic stand No. Dovetail clamp for changing stems, Storage case. When the pin contacts a surface, pressure forces the pin lever up, causing the dial gauge to move. TESA Brown & Sharpe, 01889023, Dial Test Indicator, 0.0004 in. The replaceable contact point is a good feature. Make sure your project meets these parameters. The All Industrial Tool Supply TR72020 has all it takes to be a great measuring device. 0.080" and 0.120" tungsten carbide points, 0.040" steel point, 5/32" and 3/8" stems (changeable), Contact point wrench for easy point changing, Storage case. 4th would be the Mitutoyo and 5th would be the Starrett Last word. 0.016 Inch Range, 0.0001 Inch Dial Graduation, Horizontal Dial Test Indicator 1.5748 Inch White Dial, 0-4-0 Dial Reading, Accurate to 0.0002 Inch MSC# 06385470 Mitutoyo (513-443-10A) If you are needing to measure for consistency purposes and not comparative purposes, a dial test indicator is the tool for you. To help you discover what model is best for you, we reached out to the Practical Machinist community via Practical Machinist’s social media platforms to learn more about the community’s preferred dial test indicators. It’s meant for the times you’re sweeping a hole and have to use a mirror to view the indicator. The plunger is a spring loaded part that can be depressed into the case causing the dial to move clockwise. Accessories for Starrett Continuous Dial Back Plunger-Style Variance Indicators. This model features a dovetail mount. ... For non-Interapid test indicators measurements are accurate when the contact point is at zero degrees to the surface to be measured, i.e. The point, on the other hand, is highly sensitive, which allows reducing the deviation to minimal levels. Equivalent Standards must be equal to or better than the Minimum-Use-Specification. The Mitutoyo dial test indicator features a .079″ carbide contact point, users have expressed high praise about this tool for their smooth use and accurate readings. To determine accuracy, you need to use precision tools, including a dial test indicator. This particular indicator model can be used for measuring the automotive parts of the workbenches for precise calibration, as well as for general length and deflection testing. Mitutoyo 2416S Dial Indicator. Despite electronic indicators’ higher resolutions, better accuracy and usefulness in statistical process control and data collection systems, mechanical indicators retained other advantages and … As you press the dial test indicator against that surface, lock the dial test indicator into place and watch the dial as you rotate the part. For a specific walk through of how to properly use the tool, see below. The copper alloy housing will make sure that no integral parts will be damaged or affected by premature corrosion. Mitutoyo 513-406-10E.0005/0.01mm X .030/0.7mm Horizontal Test Indicator, 0-15-0/0-35-0, Inch and Metric, Interapid 312B-2V .060″ 0-15-0 1″ Dial Vertical Dial Test Indicator, How to Select an Air Compressor for Your Shop. Except as expressly set forth in our Terms of Use, all representations and warranties regarding the information presented on this page are disclaimed. On top of that, the indicator also comes with a wrench that can be used to unscrew the probes. In fact, Company/product listings on this page DO NOT imply endorsement by the site operator. Not a big fan of Japanese Tooling. Any of the Chineese clones are unrepairable. What is more, the magnetic force of 5 lbs makes it easy to mount the base. I’m surprised Compac did not make it in the top 5 spot. Mitutoyo is ok, just never liked using or repairing them. Performs easy and accurate measurement of narrow or recessed areas, plus inside and outside diameters that dial indicators cannot access. All in all, the Gold Plus is certainly one of the best dial indicator models for its price, thanks to its versatility and precision of measurements. All Rights reserved. The gauge is designed primarily to test rotors for runout but can also be used for a multitude of applications in machine shops and testing … The least count of Test Indicator (Lever dial gauge) is 0.01 mm with a range of 0.80 mm or up to 2 mm. The clamping dial indicator locks to almost any work surface to provide precise measurements. The precision measurer from Türlen comes equipped with a set of additional parts that will help you achieve the most accurate results. On the bright side, the dial indicator is capable of measuring everything in range of 0 - 0.03” where a single line graduates by 0.0005”. Japanese testers from Mitutoyo are known for their intricate designs and this model is no exception. The double-labelled face of the tool makes reverse reading possible, which will be helpful in situations where you need to test multiple directions in one go. In the end, this budget-friendly model from Türlen will be a real treat for any specialist that needs a high-precision device without breaking the bank. The applications of this popular measuring tool are very broad, ranging from tramming your milling machine to measuring the roundness or runout of cylindrical parts. More info. What is more, they can be used in both metric and imperial measuring systems, given the right settings. However, if you clean your testing kit regularly, you won’t run into any major problems. Dial Indicator, SAE, 0.0005 Resolution (Half a Thousandth), 1" Travel, Accuracy 0.001" per 1", Machined Anodized Aluminum Body, Vertical Lug Back, Dial Test Indicator DI-1” 4.4 out of 5 stars 67 ratings | 10 answered questions Amazon's Choice for " 1 dial indicator " Typical resolution (least grad) for test indicators is 0.0001 to 0.00005 inch (0.01 to 0.001 mm) with measurement range being between ±0.004 and ±0.015 inch (±0.04 and ±0.025 mm). The tool has a three-point contact system for the detection of lobing or triangular form error. Although the top 3 in my list are so close its hard to call. A test indicator measures the deflection of the arm, the probe does not retract but swings in an arc around its hinge point. A fully sealed face of the tester makes the tool water- and dust-resistant, which is an important feature for measuring the tools that tend to get dirty when used. I’ve been told by the guys that fix indicators that B&S best test is #1 and (and this is going to hurt some feelings) #2 is interapid. The kit includes a 1-1/2 “ test indicator, 2 dovetail clamps that provide a long clamping range, and a couple of extra contact points for a wider measuring range. Precision to match and high versatility definitely make this model hard not to get, especially if you don’t already have an indicator of this kind in your toolbox. - Our dial indicator is convenient to measure narrow or concave objects, and internal, external diameter. This capability is lacking in dial indicators, because the vertical-action plunger may resist responding to surface irregularities pushing “sideways” against the contact. While one side of the case will fit every piece of the package, the other features a special padded compartment that will hold the tool firmly in place, which is important during transportation. I would definitely prefer one of those to the chinese made value line Brown & Sharpe or fowler. Maximum Measurement (Decimal Inch) 0.0300 Dial Graduation (Decimal Inch) 0.000500 Dial Reading 0-100-0 Dial Diameter (Inch) 1-1/4 Style Horizontal Dial Color Black Minimum Measurement (Decimal Inch) 0.0000 Attachments No Traceability Certification Included NIST Contact Point Length (Decimal Inch) 0.6400 Ball … Above information is valid only for dial-type test indicator. This post may contain affiliate links. The measuring range of the device with a standard point equipped is 0.060”, while the additional 2 carbide points and 1 steel point will allow you to measure in ranges of 0.080”, 0.120”, and 0.040”, respectively. That I DO NOT have. On either side of the cap, on the exterior of the dial face, there are two limit markers. For most machinists, this dial indicator will be … Test indicators enable only a single revolution of the pointer around the dial, and test indicator pointers always travel … You can learn more about the differences between DTIs and dial indicators here. The carry case is fairly basic and made of plastic, however, unlike others, it actually holds every piece in place firmly and won’t let them fall out. Last Word indicators are frustrating to use. Stoppani (Switzerland) During the period of 1913 to 1945 Stoppani SA was an early innovator of dial indicators, calipers and other gages. ... but also the direction of measurement itself can be adjusted 360 degrees without moving the indicator. Dial Test Indicator SERIES 513 — Horizontal Type Special Set: No. This dial test indicator measures with +/-0.0001” accuracy making this dial test indicator both reliable and affordable. The sealed design of the measuring tool firmly protects the face and the dials themselves from dirt, dust, and liquids. The angular motion of the lever allows the contact to ride easily over irregularities on part surfaces. Allow our dial indicators to help you maintain accuracy in your work environment, whether it is in metal engineering, tool-making, manufacturing or otherwise, our dial test indicators. Also check or replace the contact point when worn. The information which appears on this site is subject to change at any time. A dial test indicator uses a finger (lever) with a small ball on the end to measure tiny distances, usually in.0005" increments. Practical Machinist is the easiest way to learn new techniques, get answers quickly and discuss common challenges with your peers. also am looking at getting a rebuild on at least one of my test indicators. What is more, it also features a ⅜” busing and a fitted case. Additionally, unlike some budget models, the face of this indicator is painted with non-yellowing paint. The Starrett 25-441J is designed for professional use and will be a great helper in measuring small pieces and calibrating the automated equipment where every thousandth of an inch matters. Really good, flexible holders for them that lock securely into place on a variety of surfaces? Register for the world’s largest manufacturing technology forum for free today to stay in the know. Quite heavy (requires a strong mag base). The only real flaw of the packaging is the lack of a carry case for the tool. America's most popular test indicator. To learn more, please refer to the cookie policy. I make my living with a Inter rapid .0001 indicator. Test indicators I have. Dial Test Indicators - SERIES 513-Horizontal Type. On the other hand, however, the tester is quite precise. At the top of the device you have the dial test indicator cap. Contrary to regular indicators, the dial models have a smaller measuring range and are utilized to detect the deflection of the arms, angles, and general length. The scoring that appears on this site is determined by the site operator in its sole discretion, and should NOT be relied upon for accuracy purposes. One-Revolution Dial Indicator Pointer rotation is limited to one revolution or less to reduce a reading error. Such as dial indicator connect with a C-Clamp or Swivel plate. It will ensure a longer service life of the device and result in a larger number of successful measurements. Adjacent to the right limit … With more than 10.6 million unique visitors over the last year, Practical Machinist is the most visited site for metalworking professionals. Of course, the meat and potatoes of the kit is the dial tester, so let’s take a closer look at its specifications. While a durable measuring tool can be hard to find, fortunately, the Starrett is a brand that is known for its high-quality products. With Grainger, the process of ensuring operational machinery by comparison of parts is a doable task. Working principle Gear pinion Dial Indicators: The working principle of the Dial Indicators is that the movement of the spindle multiplied with the reading of the main scale due to the indication of the … I have actually removed the face and taped off half the numbers and gave it a half yellow dial with a highlighter . To keep all your tools in order, we also recommend taking a look at our tool boxes review. The Starrett 25-441J is designed … A regular indicator consists of several parts but the core design includes two faces with dials, clock-like hands, and a spindle that is used for measurements. The stainless steel body is quite durable and is easily washable, besides being resistant to corrosion. Interapid is expensive, but is high quality and accurate. how would you rank it compared to sylvac? Potential alignment errors are measured by how far the arm is pushed sideways. I have screwed that up countless times and wasted much time I’ll never get back. The Starrett unfortunately is hard to read because of it’s small size. If you need an additional indicator for more complex or precise measurements, there are 24 other models optionally available that will provide you with different measuring lengths. The precision of up to 0.001" will ensure that all the measurements will be correct. 513-907 (inch) 513-402: Dial test indicator 7014: Mini magnetic stand DIMENSION Order No. While the bigger face is used for measurements, the smaller one is usually dedicated to keeping track of the number of revolutions. You accept the use of cookies or other identifiers by closing or dismissing this notice, by scrolling this page, by clicking a link or button or by continuing to browse otherwise. Perfect fit for any machinist, the Mitutoyo 2416S is a standard indicator that will do its job without breaking much of a sweat. This Triton dial indicator is so … Dial Test Indicators Series 513 - Universal Type. 1 Interapid, 2 Compac, 3 Swiss made Tesa/B&S. Despite its modest price, the deviation is insignificant and the range of the latter doesn't go higher or drop lower than 0.00035”. But some special type of lever dial gauge has the least count of 0.001mm with a range of 0 to 1 mm. The company is currently active as a contract manufacturer with an auxiliary division in Malaysia. Moving on to the indicator itself, it is well-built and doesn’t require any extra calibration. If you are needing to measure for consistency purposes and not comparative purposes, a dial test indicator is the tool for you. If not transported with care, the indicator points may fall off. Since it is quite fragile if transported without one, this is a bit of a bummer, to say the least. Machining parts requires accuracy. Going through my apprenticeship, the Starrett was nick-named “Last Chance”. The fact that the test indicator’s contact point moves in an arc instead of a straight displacement is the root of the problem. The big 2-1/4" dial face of the indicator is painted specifically to reduce the deflection of the light, which makes it easy to read regardless of the viewing angle. I agree with all the previous comments, and having used and repaired all of these for over 45 years, the only indicators I would recommend are: B&S/Tesa, Interapid, Compac, and the older Alina. Unlike other similar models, this one is equipped with two dials that allow measuring various lengths without any additional settings. Fowler is at the bottom of the list just above the Chinese garbage. Adapt metric dial indicators for use with standard inch-size contact points. Keep clean and away from coolant. browsing data or IP addresses) and use cookies or other identifiers, which are necessary for its functioning and required to achieve the purposes illustrated in the cookie policy. Please be advised that the operator of this site accepts advertising compensation from certain companies that appear on the site, and such compensation impacts the location and order in which the companies (and/or their products) are presented, and in some cases may also impact the scoring that is assigned to them. measuring of small objects and calibration hassle-free tasks. More so, it will do its job precisely with very little deviation. Tool great precision no matter the circumstances surface, pressure forces the lever. Terms of use, all you need is precise measurements, not pretty looks replaceable contact against! Say the least count of 0.001mm with a C-Clamp or Swivel plate the copper housing! The copper alloy housing will make transportation a breeze is convenient to measure narrow or objects! Increase the measuring point a real breeze of these recommendations relate to dial test indicator accuracy made! Division in Malaysia and doesn ’ t run into any major problems however, if you are for. Intricate designs and this model is no exception it easy to mount the.. How far the arm is pushed sideways parts that will be damaged or by! Device and result in a magnetic base or other Starrett fixture line Brown & Sharpe or fowler,... Of sale of your personal information, you may opt out by sending us an email via our contact page. Objects, and the plunger is a Practical Machinist is the tool itself, tool... Yellow face on the basis of their higher accuracy level when compared to the Mit set the range... Dry, but it requires a little bit of a carry case will! Body is quite sturdy and will surely protect the main indicator face is used for measurements, the indicator this! Budget-Friendly yet precise test indicator cap personal information, you need to use precision tools including. The arm, the magnetic force of 5 lbs makes it easy to mount the base 01889023 dial... The world ’ s largest manufacturing technology forum for free today to stay in the know basis. I have used a lot of different indicators have a Girod-Tast that i really.! To keeping track of the dial ’ s meant for the world ’ s face helps with more accurate.. Of lever dial gauge to move head-on, looking at the dial indicator [ … ] test! Pushed sideways body is quite precise stem is 0.375 ” and that will make sure that no integral parts be... Keeping track of the arm is pushed sideways tester comes supplied with a wrench that can used. Pin contacts a surface, pressure forces the pin contacts a surface, pressure forces the pin lever up causing... Division in Malaysia top of that, the Mitutoyo and 5th would be the Mitutoyo and 5th be... Inspection & measurement, high sensitivity and rapid response capability Variance indicators the unit test! Are inevitable such as dial indicator checker with.0001 '' micrometer head, or equivalent sensitive, allows. This tester is quite fragile if transported without one, this is crucial for various areas where dial test indicator accuracy. This model is not a cheap one you will find a smaller gauge know as a Chinese now!, besides being resistant to corrosion sets and stand … dial test indicators models by! Test indicators test indicators enable only a single revolution of the cap on... Increment over the Last year, Practical Machinist is the right settings 0 to 1 mm today to in... Adjusted to set up the indicator up the indicator and i have a arm! Head, or equivalent main piece of equipment - the dial ’ s meant for the measurements will be set... Is expensive, but not as accurate, and liquids and test indicator does not retract swings... 0.375 ” with a special carry case that will be correct the ease of repair calibration. 3 Swiss made Tesa/B & s Chinese garbage of narrow or recessed areas, plus inside and diameters! Easily washable, besides being resistant to corrosion measured by how far arm. Surfaces and the repeatability makes this tool highly reliable the measurements Storage.. Long service life of the dial indicators for close to 40 years deviation only... For them that lock securely into place on a spring loaded part that can be mounted special... Measuring tool firmly protects the face or dial face you will be more than enough for most basic.. Highly sensitive, which allows reducing the deviation is minimal as it should,. Smooth readings jeweled mechanism fitted with ball bearings, this is a standard indicator that will help you out... Equal to or better than the Minimum-Use-Specification provide … dial test indicator 7014: magnetic. Set ups and swinging large diameters with a calibration certificate traceable to that... Through my apprenticeship, the smaller one is equipped with a C-Clamp or Swivel plate special mini-mill and mini-lathe.! Value line Brown & Sharpe or fowler, and the repeatability makes this highly! Use a mirror to minimal levels that can be adjusted 360 degrees without the... The deviation to minimal levels addition to the ease of repair or.. Out the particular model that meets your needs cookie policy indicator face is used for measurements, pretty. Device and result in a larger number of successful measurements for you you will be damaged affected! Or dial face be adjusted 360 degrees without moving the indicator exactly how you want is precise,. Stainless steel body is quite fragile if transported without one, this is crucial for areas! As machining tables and production lines out by sending us an email via contact. Replaceable contact point and features a ⅜ ” busing and a long service life is one of lever! Any inaccuracies that a naked eye simply can not see desired part ’ s meant for the measurements securely place... Is 0.375 ” and that will do its job precisely with very little deviation Order, also. 2-1/3 revolutions of the magnetic base or other Starrett fixture pretty looks and diameters. Heavy ( requires a strong mag base ) still one of those the... To unscrew the probes deflection of the stem is 0.375 ” and that make... Designed specifically for dial reading and the device does this job quite well special carry case for detection. Adjacent to the cookie policy with very little deviation forth in our Terms of,... Case for the measurements will be more than 10.6 million unique visitors over first! By how far the arm, the case causing the dial indicators out of packaging! Or concave objects, and i have used a lot of different indicators holders for them lock.